Babble

Molossia and Malesors

Abdullah wrote:"Aleta (Ptoleme II, 15) not identified. Same suffix like in royal Molosian name Alk-eta. Resemblance with Aletium in Apulia is striking. A town Halata is in present Monte-Negro. According to Krahe, the element al- appears also in city name Al-eva, Al-eta in Sicilia (Ptol. 3,4), Al-etius, Venetian person name; also Aletrium mons in Latium with identical suffix like Illyrian Andetrium (see below). Variant forms Al-ata, Nal-ata suggest that it may be related to PAlb nal-të ‘high (place, mountain)’. So, the root is probably *H2el- ‘to grow’.(Pokorny 2. al- 26.)"

My comment:
"Abdullah probably never heard for a dog called Molosser (name derived from Molossia, a country once located in Western Greece). Molosser could be translated from Greek as Black Mountain dog. Albanian Malësor has the same meaning as Crnogorac or Montenegrin.
"I would like to see what alchemy Abdulah has used to acquire the meaning 'high' from so-called PAlb nal-të; or it happened so because the Greek word μελας/melas (black) was misunderstood by the Albanians, MELAS-ORO/S μελας/ορο-ς means BLACK MOUNTAIN in Greek and Albanian MALESOR's real meaning is not "highlander" but Black Highlander or Montenegrin.
"Present Republic of Montenegro (Serbian Crna Gora) is a Black Mountain; the same Black Mountain exist in Macedonia (Skopska Crna Gora) compared with Melas-oro (also Black Mountain) in Greek. As we can see, only Albanians and Albanian language missed BLACK MONTAIN because of their inaptitude to understand foreign languages (in this case Greek) properly.
"Actually, the Albanians adopted Greek μελας/MELAS, "translating" it to their own 'mountain'. Finally, the logcial question imposes itself: if the Albanians borrowed the Greek MELAS (black) in order to name the mountains where they were allegedly born, how can anyone talk about about so-called Illyrian heritage in Albanian?
"It means: had the Albanians been the true natives of Balkan they must have had their own (inherited) name for mountain. Malisors (Greek melas oro/s) are the Black Mountaineers; Crnogorci are the Black Mountaineers or Monte Negrins; Greek Melas Oros (Black Mountain; Kara-dag in Turkish) became Albanian Malisor (mountaineer); it is the way how the Greek word melas (black) became Albanian "mountain".
"There is no borrowing from Albanian into Greek or any other language in Balkan, simply, because Albanians were colonized in Balkan during 12th century (in a small and negligible number). It took them a few centuries to become a real and recognizable nation.

COW EATING WOLF

Listen to this stupidity: "Maybe Alb. lopë “cow, (huge consuming animal; cow eaten by wolves)”, llup “devour”, llapë “tongue” : Lith. lapenti “to swallow food”. Page 2737 dnghu.org; Pokorny 1179

My comment:"Interesting, cow has been named in Albanian 'lopë' and, according to Abdullah's opinion, it is related to the Latin word lupus (wolf); on the other side, wolf is called ulk/ujk in Albanian. What a miraculous Sqip-Illyrian naming; something in style of Polat Kaya, the "famous" Turkish etymologist whose crankiness Abdullah mentioned recently, when he attacked me, safely hidden behind Cybalist "moderated" curtain."I just wander why the Albanians did not name sheep in accordance with the Latin lupus/volpes; sheep is much more favorite pray for wolf/fox than cow - particularly a grown up one!"Using such a special word and sound-change "technology" there is nothing in the world that you cannot "prove". Associated with two others great scientists (G.S. and A.L.), Abdulah taught Pokorny that his root *lup- was derived from *ulkW- (most sanative kw => p Indo-Illyrian sound change). "Neither Abdullah nor his two soul-trading mentors were able to understand that Slavic volk (wolf) and lisica (fox) originated from the Bel-Gon basis while lupus (wolf) and volpes (fox) sprang from the reduplicated Bel ur-syllable. There is a Serbian word 'lupež' (thief, crook; also lopina, lopuža, lopušina) which is obviously connected to Latin lupus (wolf) and Greek αλωπεκίς/alopekis (fox) and... in Serbian, the history of these words is clear."I was talking many times here about the Bel-Gon basis and words like English begin and Serbian pogon, waggon, way, voziti, Weg, pulse and Serbian polazak (start, outset); In case of the noun volk and lisica the word obilaziti (resort, range, roam); hence obilazak (visit) => (b)liska => lisica (fox) => lija; on the other side, Serbian word 'obilaženje' (in sense of visit) can also be uvlačenje (prowling, move about in a predatory manner; from the sam Bel-Gon basis as 'obilaženje' visiting), uvlaka, volk, vuk (wolf)."In order to understand how interesting the development and history of a certain words can be, let me mention the Latin word veterinus (from vehiterinus; veho bear, carry, ride, pass), i.e. vehi-terinus is the same as Serbian "vučna životinja" (burden-bearing or pulling animal). Now we are coming back to the above mentioned "begining' and the words pogon, waggon, way, voziti, Weg, pulse... However, Slavic 'volk' is not a pulling animal although the Slavic "volk" name has been derived from the noun 'vlačenje' (vlak, volk, vuk, vučji)... "And, please, do not mix Latin fera with German Tier or maybe with Slavic 'zver', Swedish 'djur', Sanskrit 'tiryanc' (tiryan), dhúrya (beast of burden)...

Trading on Tratina

Celtic 'durùnna' means "fast water". Compare the names of rivers Dordogne (from Duruna) in France, Drina in Serbia and the terms Dardan and Dardanian, which are in classical writings considered as synonymous with the term Trojan. I am trying to show the way in which everyone can independently follow the history of any words. Namely, in case od Duruna (Drina) we cannot start from any known IE root, neither from dher-, dhers-, derk-, dhreg- nor from ter- etc., because these roots are markers for the modern words in a way as we see them today.

In fact, all the above "roots" were the "products" of the ancient (primal) basis HOR-GON. As I told many times before, HOR/S represented the sun god and one of the first words that sprung from this basis was CIRCLE (Serb. KRUG); of course, according to the round-shaped form of the sun. The notion of CIRCULATION evolved from the previous word – CIRCLE (Serb. KRUG). From this moment on, we can completely track the farther development of the HOR-GON basis, as it seems, only in Slavic languages, especially in Serbian.

The next word that comes out from CIRCULATION (KRUŽENJE) is KRETANJE (motion, movement). We can clearly see here the velar to dental change in the middle syllable (krugenje => krećanje => kretanje). In addition, there is the Serbian word TRKATI/ TRČATI (run), TRČANJE (running), which seems to be a metathesis of KRETANJE (KRETANJE => TRKANJE running), with the same meaning as the Greek TREHO (τρέχω). As we can see, English RUN fits well into the given scheme, because it is a pair with the Serbian KRENI (imperative go!), of course, with the initial sound being elided.

The Serbian word TRK (run; Greek TREHO) was the source of other words, as English TRACK, Russian DOROGA (road) Serbian TRAG (trace) and English TRACE).

On the other side, KRUŽENJE (circulation), via TRAŽENJE (searching, looking) gave birth to the words as Serbian TRAŽENJE (searching, looking), TRG (market), Greek AGORAS αγοράς (market) and English TRADING (cf. Serbian verb TERATI drive).

The above-mentioned Serbian word TERANJE (driving, chasing) was derived from the older word GURANJE (pushing) via, today dialectal ĆERANJE (driving, chasing; ‘ć’ is equal to the Italian ‘c’ in ‘ciao’). As we can see, GURANJE also sprang from the basis HOR-GON. In fact, KRUŽENJE (circulation) and TRAŽENJE (searching, looking) are unimaginable without GURANJE (pushing).

After solving the problem with the history of the Serbian word TERANJE (driving) it becomes clear were the other Serbian words as DERANJE (abrade, tear), TRENJE (friction; Greek τριβή, Serb. TRVENJE), DIRANJE (touching) and UDARANJE (striking; Greek DERNO δέρνω beat) came from. The English TEAR was born from the same basis as Serbian TERATI (drive) and OTRGNUTI (tear).

There is the Serbian word VODO-DERINA (gully, rill-mark) that shows us from whence the river names Drina and Duruna came. Let us compare this DERINA (DRINA) with the Slavic names of populated places DARDA and TORDA. Darda was first mentioned in the end of 13th and beginning of 14th century as "Tarda". Ottoman traveling-writer Evlija Celebija in 1663 described Darda as an important market place. In fact, Tarda or Torda was nothing else but a place of TRADE. In addition, there are the Slavic personal name DARODAN (who is gifted) and the Serbian words for stamped (leveled, torn down) land TRATINA and UTRINA (Serb. UTRT
beaten). TRATINA or UTRINA (leveled land) always was the best place for trading. This TRADING on TRATINA was the reason why we have Serbian words TARA (tare weight; generally, an empty truck makes up about one-third of the total weight of the truck – Serb. TREĆINA), TRUDITI SE (effort, endevour) and syntagma “TRUD se isplati” (it is worth of effort), i.e. the value of our work is well visible on the market.

End of first part.

Bardhylis

*bherHg- ‘to shine; bright, white’, PIE form *bherHg’- is probably the root from which the Albanian bredh ‘fir, fir-tree’ was derived, as well as Romanian brad ‘fir’. Its perform was probably o-grade form *bhrog’-o > PAlb *bradza. From this root is also derived Old English birce(e) ‘birch’ from Germanic *birkjo:n- as well as Latin fraxinus ‘ash tree’. Generally this root is used to describe the ‘white tree’. From this root is also derived Alb adjective (i,e) bardhë ‘white’ probably from suffixed zero-grade form *bhr.H2g’-o, where *-r.H2- has yielded PAlb –ra- (see Cybalist). As adjective it is also used in personal names: Albert from OHG Adalbert ‘nobel bright’ (adal ‘nobel’), OHG Giselberht ‘bright hostage’, Herbert ‘bright army’ and so on (see Watkins AHDIR, p.11.). So, to claim that Illyrian king’s name Bardhylis is not derived from the adjective *bhr.H2g’-o, to my view, is nonsense. This adjective is also present in Romanian barza ‘stork; literally - white bird’ and I believe in Slavic patronymic Lubarda probably from lumbardha ‘female pigeon, bomb’ or (i,e) lubardhë ‘whitish, fair-hared, blond’. To me is very interesting its religious meaning ‘blessed’: i bardhi ti ‘blessed you’, e bardha ditë ‘blessed
day’ etc. I think that –is in king’s name Bardhylis is a masculine ending, till –yl could be a suffix, attested also in z-bërdhyl-un ‘whitish’ etc. Etymology Bardhylis ‘white star’ to my view is a folk etymology, made by Edwin Jacques in his book: The Albanians: An Ethnic History from Prehistoric Times to the Present (page 82.).

Konushevci

I agree here with you. Ur-basis of the Albanian 'bredh' (fir) and 'bardhë' (white) obviously was BR-GON (or the "root" *bherHg’-) as it was the source of other words, Albanian 'bredh' (wander), Albanian 'prag' (threshold; loan word from Serbian –prag-) or the English
'bread'. For instance, English bread probably came from OHG prioჳan (Latin frangere, Serbian prsnuti) but it could have also come from the English 'burn' (Serbian purenje); i.e. from 'brewing' (Serb. 'vrenje' yeast fermenting process). In fact, it doesn't matter (at all!) from
which of the three above "sources" bread appeared, because all the above processes are clearly and logically connected. There is no doubt that the Albanian 'bardhë' and English 'bright' are
the descendants of the same above progenitor. Nevertheless, I could not agree with you that ‘birch’ (Serbian ‘breza’) means “white tree” because ‘percus’ (“Perkūnas, Latvian Pērkons,
Prussian Perkonis, in name and function closely associated with the Slavic Perun, Hittite Peruna, Old Indic Parjānya” /Marija Gimbutas The Balts/) has the meaning ‘oak’. Most of the modern linguists believe that Latin ‘quercus’ is coming from ‘percus’; in reality, ‘quercus’ is related to Serbian ‘hrast’ and Celtic ‘Hercynia’, both from the basis HOR-GON. Perkunas, like Perun, Thor and Donnar, is a Thunder god and, as we know, thunder strikes the oak tree very often. Serbian ‘brest’ might be translated as ‘bel-hrast’ (elm; white oak), or it just happened to look so because is the tree of the god Bel. If we consider carefully the Serbian word ‘drvo’ we will see that this word comes from the ancient basis HOR-BEL (compare Russian дерево/ đerevo, Serbian ‘gorivo’ /fuel/, ‘ogrev’ /fuel/ and you will be able to grasp what I am talking about). Romanian ‘barza’ is coming from the same well spring as the Serbian word ‘roda’ (stork). In fact barza (roda, stork) is considered as to be the BIRD that BRINGS babies. As you see I intentionally
capitalized words BIRD and BRING trying to show you the way in which the English words BIRD, BRING and BIRTH are mutually connected (Serbian POROD = BIRTH). Hence, Romanian BARZA has nothing to do with your ‘white bird’?
Let me finish. I do also agree with you that no one with the sound mind would have ever claimed that Bardhylis was not derived from BR-GON basis (or your *bhr.H2g’-o “root”). The ur-basis BR-GON means literally ‘opposite driving’ and there from we have the Serbian words ‘obrtati’ (rotate), ‘obratiti se’ (address), ‘obrnuti’ (convert), ‘obratno’ (inverse), ‘vrteti’ (spin),
‘obratiti se nekome’ (come up to). If you were in trouble to whom would you come up to for help? Of course, probably you would have addressed first to your brother (Serbian BRAT). There are a lot of Serbian names and surnames that have been derived from the word BRAT
(brother) – BRACAN, BRATKO, BRATISLAV, BRATOVOJE, BRATOMIR, BRAJAN (medieval Serbian name, the same as today’s BRIAN in UK), BRATOLJUB (often nicknamed as BRATOJLE); and some other names (old and modern) as BRACA, BRAJO, BRALE, BRAJLE, BRAJILO.
According to the above analysis Bardhylis appears to be a clear Slavic name, and I admit, it opposes the official historic view about “the great migration of the Slavs” during the 6-7th century AD. It shows, together with the clear Slavic geographical names across the whole
Central and South Europe, that Slavs were indigenous Balkan people.